{"id":871,"date":"2016-06-17T09:57:52","date_gmt":"2016-06-17T12:57:52","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/?p=871"},"modified":"2016-06-30T09:57:42","modified_gmt":"2016-06-30T12:57:42","slug":"creationists-and-mythcists-the-stubborn-ignorance-of-radicals","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/2016\/06\/17\/creationists-and-mythcists-the-stubborn-ignorance-of-radicals\/","title":{"rendered":"Creationists and Mythicists: the stubborn ignorance of radicals"},"content":{"rendered":"<div style=\"padding-bottom:20px; padding-top:10px;\" class=\"hupso-share-buttons\"><!-- Hupso Share Buttons - https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/ --><a class=\"hupso_counters\" href=\"https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/buttons\/lang\/pt\/share-small.png\" style=\"border:0px; padding-top:2px; float:left;\" alt=\"Share Button\"\/><\/a><script type=\"text\/javascript\">var hupso_services_c=new Array(\"twitter\",\"facebook_like\",\"facebook_send\",\"pinterest\",\"email\",\"print\",\"linkedin\");var hupso_counters_lang = \"pt_BR\";var hupso_image_folder_url = \"\";var hupso_twitter_via=\"blogdootavio\";var hupso_url_c=\"\";var hupso_title_c=\"Creationists%20and%20Mythicists%3A%20the%20stubborn%20ignorance%20of%20radicals\";<\/script><script type=\"text\/javascript\" src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/js\/counters.js\"><\/script><!-- Hupso Share Buttons --><\/div><p style=\"text-align: justify;\">There is a consensus among biologists about the truth of the theory of evolution. The same thing happens among historians in respect to the existence of Jesus as a historical person (I don\u2019t deal here with religious aspects).<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">However, some religious fundamentalists, dismissing the scientific community, reject evolution, because they have a literal interpretation of the Genesis (biblical story of creation). Thus, they are known as creationists.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">On the other hand, some radical atheists (usually militant anti-theists), ignoring the consensus within historians, claim Jesus never existed at all. Since they defend the &#8220;Christ Myth Theory&#8221;, they are called mythicists.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">Even though there are clear distinctions between scientific and historical evidences, it\u2019s still curious to notice how such opposed extremes behave themselves in such similar manner. Thinking about that, I\u2019ve decided to create the following dialogues to better describe this scenario:<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><strong>TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN: THE STUBBORN IGNORANCE OF RADICALS<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><strong>I \u2013<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Pay attention, Lucas. \u2014 Leonardo was trying again to convince his creationist friend to accept the Theory of Evolution.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 For what? You will tell me the same things you always do.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Forget our previous\u00a0conversations. Let\u2019s pretend it\u2019s the first time, please.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Ok&#8230; Go on \u2014 said a bored Lucas.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Thanks. First, you must know that practically all specialized scholars in the fields related to this subject defend evolution\u2026 \u2014 Leonardo was talking until he was interrupted by Lucas.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Wait a second. I\u2019ve seen several articles in newspapers and magazines with scholars against evolution. There is even a documentary about this.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Lucas, those aren\u2019t scholars in the field; they are practically laymen without the proper training and\/or knowledge about this subject.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 But there are even college professors.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 \u00a0From other areas. To my knowledge, there is not in the western world a single full professor in biology who denies evolution and defends creationism.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 That doesn\u2019t say much. Since they are probably all atheists, they are likely biased. Of course they will defend evolution.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 They aren\u2019t all atheists. Lucas. There are catholic, Jewish, protestant, agnostic, and atheists scholars, and they all treat evolution as a scientific fact.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 They do it for money then. Think about it: they must defend that, because it\u2019s their livelihood. If they admitted it was all a farce, they would have no job and would not be relevant at all.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 On the contrary, Lucas. Think about it: the person who would prove this supposed falsehood of evolution would make a revolution and would considered a genius in the field. Who wouldn\u2019t want this kind of fame?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 I\u2019m not convinced. Maybe they don\u2019t give a chance to others because they are afraid of losing their relevance. But ok, let\u2019s assume that there really is such consensus and good faith among scholars. That does not prove evolution at all. They can be all wrong? Do you agree?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Yes. But an effective consensus of qualified experts constitutes meeting an initial burden of evidence, because it is far more unlikely that an incorrect argument would persuade a hundred experts than that it would persuade only one; and it\u2019s far more unlikely that it would persuade any expert than that it would persuade even a hundred amateurs.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Not when there is a clear bias among those so called experts. Anyway, none of that is evidence. Where are they?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Well, we have several evidences. Like, for example, the fossil record, the geologic column, that shows the succession on the rocky formation that in millions of years shaped the crust of the earth, and that have fossils in a progressive sequence that shows a gradual transition, from the simplest to the most complex form of life. There\u2019s homology, similarities in shape and function in several species anatomies. There\u2019s the universal genetic code. There\u2019s also\u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Leonard was still explaining when Lucas said:<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 I don\u2019t believe in none of that. Personal and biased interpretations with the purpose to get to a pre-desired conclusion. Who can guarantee that those things are true? Where\u2019s the evidence?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 You interrupted me. May I go on?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 No, do this: show me a monkey or a horse becoming a human being.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 That\u2019s not how evolution works, Lucas. Man \u201cdid not come from monkey\u201d, they both just have common ancestors. The evolutionary process might take thousands to millions of years. I don\u2019t have to show that happening right now to prove evolution is real.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Rather convenient. So all that, like the name says, is just a theory.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 A scientific theory, not just a theory in popular meaning. Like I\u2019ve explained, evolution is a scientific fact, because it\u2019s based on evidences. It\u2019s the best explanation there is for the development of life.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 The best, but not necessarily the truth. When you call it a fact, it kills any type of discussion. Unfortunately, I can tell you\u2019re rather radical and have your mind set. It\u2019s hard to argue like this.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Is that what you have understood after everything I\u2019ve said? If you want, I can explain it with more details. \u2014 said a patient Leonardo.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 No need. You have not convinced me. You have your opinion, I have mine. Let\u2019s agree to disagree.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Ok, Lucas, ok. \u2014 Leonardo gave up.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Don\u2019t worry, my friend. A couple years from now, you will think \u201cHow I could not tell that Lucas was right all along?\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 I really, really doubt that, my friend&#8230;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><strong>II-<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Pay attention, Lucas. \u2014 Leonardo was trying again to convince his mythicist friend to accept that there really was a historical Jesus.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 For what? You will tell me the same things you always do.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Forget those conversations. Let\u2019s pretend it\u2019s the first time, please.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Ok&#8230; Go on \u2014 said a bored Lucas.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Thanks. First, you must know that practically all specialized scholars in the fields related to this subject defend that Jesus existed\u2026 \u2014 Leonardo was talking until he was interrupted by Lucas.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Wait a second. I\u2019ve seen several articles in newspapers and magazines with scholars against it. There is even a documentary about this.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Lucas, those aren\u2019t scholars in the field; they are practically laymen without the proper training and\/or knowledge about this subject.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 But there are even college professors.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Scholars from other areas. There isn\u2019t a single full college professor in the whole western world, specialized in the fields involving this matter, who denies the existence of Jesus as a historical person.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 That doesn\u2019t say much. Since they are probably all Christians, they are likely biased. Of course they will defend this.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 They aren\u2019t all Christians, Lucas. There are catholic, Jewish, protestant, agnostic, and atheist scholars, and they all agree Jesus existed.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 They do it for money then. Think about it: they must defend that, because it\u2019s their livelihood. If they admitted it was all a farce, they would have no job and would not be relevant at all.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 On the contrary, Lucas. Think about it: the person who would prove this supposed inexistence of Jesus would make a revolution and would considered a genius in the field. Who wouldn\u2019t want this kind of fame?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 I\u2019m not convinced. Maybe they don\u2019t give a chance to others because they are afraid of losing their relevance. But ok, let\u2019s assume that there really is such consensus and good faith among scholars. That does not prove Jesus existed at all. They can be all wrong? Do you agree?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Yes. But an effective consensus of qualified experts constitutes meeting an initial burden of evidence, because it is far more unlikely that an incorrect argument would persuade a hundred experts than that it would persuade only one; and it\u2019s far more unlikely that it would persuade any expert than that it would persuade even a hundred amateurs.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Not when there is a clear bias among those so called experts. Anyway, none of that is evidence. Where are they?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Well, we have several evidences. Like, for example, the epistles of Paul (several almost universally considered authentic among scholars), who knew personally knew Jesus followers like Peter and James (brother of Jesus). Paul\u2019s writings are consistent of the time period and its events. There\u2019s also the gospel, because there is several information there that pass important criterion in the study of history, like embarrassment (for instance, the Jews would never invent a crucified Messiah) and multiple attestation. We have non-Christian sources: references to Jesus can be found in the writings of Roman Historian Tacitus and Jewish historian Josephus There\u2019s also\u2026 \u2014 Leonard was still explaining when Lucas said:<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 I don\u2019t believe in none of that at all. Personal and biased interpretations with the purpose to get to a pre-desired conclusion. Who can guarantee that those things are true? Where\u2019s the evidence?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 You interrupted me. May I go on?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 No, do this: show me Jesus bones or the original sentence against him.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 That\u2019s not how the study of history works, Lucas. You must analyze the body of evidences together. \u00a0I don\u2019t have to show any of that to prove Jesus existed.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Rather convenient. So all that is just stories.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 History, not just stories. Like I\u2019ve explained, the existence of Jesus is a historical fact. It\u2019s the best explanation there is for that man and period of time.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 The best, but not necessarily the truth. When you call it a fact, it kills any type of discussion. Unfortunately, I can tell you\u2019re rather radical and have your mind set. It\u2019s hard to argue like this.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Is that what you have understood after everything I\u2019ve said? If you want, I can explain it with more details. \u2014 said a patient Leonardo.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 No need. You have not convinced me. You have your opinion, I have mine. Let\u2019s agree to disagree.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Ok, Lucas, ok. \u2014 Leonardo gave up.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 Don\u2019t worry, my friend. A couple years from now, you will think \u201cHow I could not tell that Lucas was right all along?\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">\u2014 I really, really doubt that, my friend&#8230;<\/p>\n<div style=\"padding-bottom:20px; padding-top:10px;\" class=\"hupso-share-buttons\"><!-- Hupso Share Buttons - https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/ --><a class=\"hupso_counters\" href=\"https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/buttons\/lang\/pt\/share-small.png\" style=\"border:0px; padding-top:2px; float:left;\" alt=\"Share Button\"\/><\/a><script type=\"text\/javascript\">var hupso_services_c=new Array(\"twitter\",\"facebook_like\",\"facebook_send\",\"pinterest\",\"email\",\"print\",\"linkedin\");var hupso_counters_lang = \"pt_BR\";var hupso_image_folder_url = \"\";var hupso_twitter_via=\"blogdootavio\";var hupso_url_c=\"\";var hupso_title_c=\"Creationists%20and%20Mythicists%3A%20the%20stubborn%20ignorance%20of%20radicals\";<\/script><script type=\"text\/javascript\" src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/js\/counters.js\"><\/script><!-- Hupso Share Buttons --><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<div style=\"padding-bottom:20px; padding-top:10px;\" class=\"hupso-share-buttons\"><!-- Hupso Share Buttons - https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/ --><a class=\"hupso_counters\" href=\"https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/\"><img src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/buttons\/lang\/pt\/share-small.png\" style=\"border:0px; padding-top:2px; float:left;\" alt=\"Share Button\"\/><\/a><script type=\"text\/javascript\">var hupso_services_c=new Array(\"twitter\",\"facebook_like\",\"facebook_send\",\"pinterest\",\"email\",\"print\",\"linkedin\");var hupso_counters_lang = \"pt_BR\";var hupso_image_folder_url = \"\";var hupso_twitter_via=\"blogdootavio\";var hupso_url_c=\"\";var hupso_title_c=\"Creationists%20and%20Mythicists%3A%20the%20stubborn%20ignorance%20of%20radicals\";<\/script><script type=\"text\/javascript\" src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/js\/counters.js\"><\/script><!-- Hupso Share Buttons --><\/div><p>There is a consensus among biologists about the truth of the theory of evolution. The same thing happens among historians in respect to the existence of Jesus as a historical person (I don\u2019t deal here with religious aspects). However, some religious fundamentalists, dismissing the scientific community, reject evolution, because they have a literal interpretation of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n<div style=\"padding-bottom:20px; padding-top:10px;\" class=\"hupso-share-buttons\"><!-- Hupso Share Buttons - https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/ --><a class=\"hupso_counters\" href=\"https:\/\/www.hupso.com\/share\/\"><img src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/buttons\/lang\/pt\/share-small.png\" style=\"border:0px; padding-top:2px; float:left;\" alt=\"Share Button\"\/><\/a><script type=\"text\/javascript\">var hupso_services_c=new Array(\"twitter\",\"facebook_like\",\"facebook_send\",\"pinterest\",\"email\",\"print\",\"linkedin\");var hupso_counters_lang = \"pt_BR\";var hupso_image_folder_url = \"\";var hupso_twitter_via=\"blogdootavio\";var hupso_url_c=\"\";var hupso_title_c=\"Creationists%20and%20Mythicists%3A%20the%20stubborn%20ignorance%20of%20radicals\";<\/script><script type=\"text\/javascript\" src=\"https:\/\/static.hupso.com\/share\/js\/counters.js\"><\/script><!-- Hupso Share Buttons --><\/div>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":866,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[68,132],"tags":[134,22,117,17,16],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/871"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=871"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/871\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1042,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/871\/revisions\/1042"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/866"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=871"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=871"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/otaviopinto.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=871"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}